Monica Simeon and Zeke Smith

Zeke 

There are words and language that we're using as an organization, words like equity, words like progressive, which mean one thing to us and they mean something entirely different to a lot of other people in our community.

Nancy 

From The Giving Practice at Philanthropy Northwest, this is "Can we talk about...?" a project to normalize the messiness of leading for racial equity in philanthropy and reflect on what it takes to create lasting transformation. In season two, our hosts explore what it looks like for philanthropy to advance racial equity on the ground where the work can look quite different depending on the context, whether it's place issue, area or community served, and in a world where our contexts are constantly shifting, we're asking guests to practice vulnerability, explore sticky topics and look for learning, and what we ask of you is to do the same.

Katie (Host) 

Hello everyone, and welcome to "Can we talk about...?" my name is Katie Hong, and I'm a senior advisor with The Giving Practice at Philanthropy Northwest, and I'll be your host for this episode, which is our very first episode of season two, so yay. And I'm also really happy because this is my first episode as this season's co-host. So I'm so happy to be one of the co-hosts, along with my good friend Abby Sarmac and Dr. Robin Martin, two other senior advisors with The Giving Practice, and together, we get to be the host for this season. And today, I'm so thrilled to be joined by Zeke Smith and Monica Simeon of the Empire Health Foundation. Zeke joined Empire Health Foundation as president in 2020 and Monica is the current vice chair for the board, and when she's been on the board of directors since 2018. So I'll have Zeke and Monica share more in a moment and introduce themselves. But as a quick overview, Empire Health Foundation is a health conversion foundation serving seven counties and three tribes in eastern Washington. They have $98 million in assets with a grantmaking budget of $5.8 million and in 2023 83% of their endowment funded grants went towards supporting Black, Indigenous, People of Color organizations and communities. As an organization, they are committed to boldly advancing health equity in the region, and recently, they adopted a 10 year strategic framework that puts a finer focus on the how of this work. So I've been so impressed getting to know the Empire, Health Foundation and the really thoughtful way that they've been approaching this work. They really are a bright spot, and I think a great example in our sector of how they are advancing and operationalizing their equity commitments. So audience, you really are in for a great treat with this conversation. So welcome Zeke and Monica. Thank you again for being here, and as a way of introduction, I I would love for each of you to introduce yourself, and if you could each share what experiences and perspectives you're bringing into this conversation today. That would be really great. And maybe I'll ask Monica to go first and then pass it to Zeke.

Monica 

Thank you, Katie. It's an honor to be here. My name is Monica Simeon, and I am current vice chair of the board of Empire Health Foundation. I am a lifelong resident of Spokane, Washington, so I come to this work as a community member. I've been raised in Spokane and have deep ties. I'm a citizen of the Spokane Tribe, so grew up in my tribal community, and I have a lot of just a lot of understanding of the challenges that are faced by our tribal communities. So I hope to bring a perspective from my community as I serve on the board, help bridge, you know, understanding and just create an opportunity to build relationship, an authentic relationship. The tribes we serve in Empire Health Foundation aren't located in the urban areas. So there is some work for us to do to reach out into the rural tribal communities and and show our dedication and commitment. And if I can help facilitate that, I certainly feel honored to do so.

Katie (Host) 

That's awesome. And I know before we go to Zeke, that in addition to serving on the board, you also come with such rich professional and personal expertise. Will you just say a little bit more about your day job too?

Monica 

Sure, sure. Thank you. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a native woman owned company. My sister and I own a management consulting company, so we work with the federal government and the state government on projects, programs and initiatives that serve tribal communities in the areas of education, health and wellness. So I have spent the better part of 10 years really assembling very passionate team members to work towards improving outcomes, health outcomes for tribal communities. So I do bring that perspective into my work, as well with Empire Health Foundation.

Katie (Host) 

That's awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much. Okay, Zeke.

Zeke 

Yeah thanks, Katie. And thanks, Monica, it's great to hear. I always love hearing bits of your story. Really excited to be here, both on this podcast, but also here in Spokane, on the northeast side of Washington, with Empire Health Foundation. I'm actually, you know, Monica shared her deep experience in this particular community, and I'm pretty new to it. I actually came here for this role, for this job, just about four years ago, and came because I was excited about what the opportunity presented with Empire Health Foundation. You know, when I think about what brings me into this space, I can't help but think about my own background. My mother immigrated to the United States from Indonesia with her parents and her brother by way of the Netherlands. And my father was born and raised in California, but was Osage and Oneida and white, and each of them grew up in environments where they really kind of wrestled with a lot of the same issues that our community members here in the inland Northwest do. And you know, we moved 19 times before the time I was 19 years old, and most of that was economically related, so lots of different environments, four different elementary schools. So what I think about the work that we do and our focus and our mission, working on health equity and addressing health equity in communities that are furthest from those realities, I bring a lot of those personal understandings and experience into it. I've worked in the nonprofit space, really trying to make a difference in my communities and in communities that I identify with for upwards of 30 years, and I try to bring that into this role and space at a foundation, working from a philanthropic organization is really different than having a real, direct and embedded role in community, but there's a lot I think, that we as philanthropic organizations have in front of us to learn about how we walk alongside our community, which we're excited to share a little bit more about how we're thinking about at Empire Health Foundation.

Katie (Host) 

Great, thank you so much for that introduction. It's so great to learn about both of you personally, but also just a rich experience, both in terms of your own personal experience as well as the professional experience that you're bringing in. So thank you again, and just in the attempt to continue to bring our audience up to speed on, on what the work of the Empire Health Foundation has been, I just, you know, want to just ground this conversation and kind of what, what the intention and the goals of this season two has been for this podcast, as we've discussed, really, our goal for this season is to highlight what it looks like for funders to operationalize at a really practical level, what it means to advance equitable outcomes on the ground and and what it's like to do this in the context of many, many different, diverse context, because we all are located in different communities. We have different local situations. And so with that, I would just love if you could start by bringing us to the ground level of Eastern Washington and speak to what Empire Health Foundation's work to advance health equity in your region has looked like.

Zeke 

I know that Monica can provide a little bit more perspective on the on Eastern Washington, but you know, as I came here, I had the opportunity to really kind of lean into understanding what it looks like on the ground here. Our organization serves, as you mentioned, Katie, the seven counties that are right up in the northeast corner of the state of Washington and specifically also works with the three tribes that have reservation communities that are that overlap with that geography. That's the Colville confederated, the Spokane and the Kalispell. And in the same way that those three tribes are both related and connected and but also really different from each other. We see that same reality play out across this community. Spokane is a interesting urban environment, or the second largest city in the state of Washington, and most people don't know that, and we're the largest city between Minneapolis and Seattle, and yet we're surrounded by really rural communities. And there's both the kind of symbiotic relationship that you can see, but that oftentimes is not very visible, between rural agricultural environments and communities and a city and a port like Spokane, but there's also a lot of differences between and so at the same time, you know, people think of Spokane, if they know about it, as a, frankly, as a pretty white city. It's one of the things that people point towards when they think about this community, which is both true but not true. It is true in that we have a large percentage of our population in the city and the surrounding areas that are white, but we also have really diverse communities of color, both in the city and in and around us and and so one of the things that we, you know, have really been thinking about in this particular context is, you know, how do we really work alongside and support those communities who, frankly, have been under resourced and under supported and and are underrepresented in positions of power across the region. And so for us, as we think about our mission focused on improving health equity in the region, we more and more have have worked towards being explicit about prioritizing specific communities, and why it is that we're prioritizing those communities with the resources that we have over the last four, four years or so, that has played out in a couple of kind of tangible ways as we think about how do you operationalize this work? The first is that we spent a couple years really listening and engaging with our community members, our community partners, our community leaders, to understand how they thought about Empire Health Foundation, their relationship to us. What had worked, what hadn't worked? Did they know who we were? And also what were the issues and opportunities in their communities that were important to them and and that kind of listening process and the engagement with staff and board around that led to the development of our equity healing framework, which largely is kind of a commitment to each other, about how we want to work in and alongside of community, and what do we want people to understand about how we approach this work? So it's a lot about the how. It's a lot about listening. It's a lot about looking for places where there are opportunities to build connections. It's about building on opportunities, but also really surfacing and understanding barriers and then working to support and accelerate change within community and across communities. And that was pretty foundational for us in terms of understanding how we want to position ourselves, with the kind of kind of cultural thinking about our identity. But it didn't quite get to the operational right. It was. It was more about who we wanted to be in this environment, in this space that we operate in. We've spent the last couple years following that by working on developing this strategic direction, 10 year strategic direction our board adopted in May. And that's more about the what. What does it mean in terms of how we want to how we're going to deploy our resources, how we're going to use our position and our privilege intentionally alongside of community partners. And it's built on, really a theory of change that has resonated for us, that focuses on the fact that you need people, you need leaders in communities that are equipped with the right experience and the right skills to be able to engage and to lead organizations, that nonprofits in particular, but that organizations really, oftentimes, are kind of at the centerpiece of engaging in communities, and that there's a level of infrastructure and stability that's required for those organizations and those people together to really have the power and to be in a position to envision and then to go after the kind of change that they want to see, which then also we think applies to the kinds of systems change that really needs to happen. So it's not systems change. Or maybe, I should say, doesn't make sense for us to assume that systems are a change, are going to change just because they should, or because we might want them to, but that really it is about people and organizations in the communities that are looking for and need that change to occur, being in a position to be able to really push that change through.

Katie (Host) 

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Can you just share a little bit more about that?

Zeke 

So I want to ground that a little bit in terms of, I'll tell a story about what kind of doing that work in this context, has meant for us. And I should say, you know, in addition to the people that are here in this community, it's also worth noting that it's a politically diverse space. We have a lot of folks that are conservative, we got a lot of folks that are progressive, but it's a really different environment than I was used to working in. I worked for about 30 years in Portland and and that's just a kind of a different environment in terms of people that are there. And part of why that's important is because more and more as we've been doing this work here, I've been realizing the power and the importance of language, both in terms of how it can get in your way, but also how it can be a critical way to bring people together. And so quick story, we have been engaged for a couple years in supporting our local community to address homelessness and to move people who are unhoused off the streets and into better housing and into the kinds of supports that they really need. When we started really doing that work, we were working with a number of local service providers on addressing a pretty large homeless encampment, place called Camp Hope. There were about 700 people that were living on a single city block that was state owned property. It was an intense environment. Was not safe for individuals that were there and had an impact on the community around it. So it became a bit of a kind of political target for our community more broadly. And as we were working, really to try to support our local providers, to get folks into right environments, we had to do that in spite of a lot of local electeds, including the sheriff at the time who wanted to kind of crash in there with his vehicles and his folks and send everybody to jail, even though he knew, and we knew that that wasn't actually a solution, and they didn't even have the ability to do that. But at one point in this kind of heated environment, the sheriff called a press conference, and all the local news stations were covering it, and he called me out specifically, and he called a couple of other local leaders out, you know, he called us liars, and he called us communists, and he called us progressives as a negative word. And, you know, we, we made it through that situation. Camp Hope has has closed, and we continue to work with those same providers and with folks that are unhoused. But it was an interesting moment for me to realize that there are words and language that we are using as an organization, words like equity, words like progressive, which mean one thing to us, and they mean something entirely different to a lot of other people in our community and the sheriff who had different interests than we did, was using some of that same language, but he was using it in a negative way. And it was, it was a, it was like this really important moment to realize sometimes we have to get underneath the language, because what might work in a place like Seattle or a place like Portland for language doesn't necessarily work here, even though the meaning underneath it when we think about equity, you know, this idea that getting to the end point of equity is really that, you know, we all have the ability and have systems that work for us in an equitable way, that that idea is not actually a very provocative idea, that that, you know, our nation was founded on that notion hasn't necessarily played out that way, but it was founded there. And so there is a lot of, I think, opportunity to think about and to engage the community here with different language, even though we still are, are talking about the same intentional ideas. So the, I think, what I would say is, you know, we're, we're in this great opportunity, as in our on the our side of the state of Washington, we we've got, we're a fairly large private foundation, and we've got a great board that supports an awesome mission. And yet the context we operate in is really different. And so what it looks like to really operationalize, working towards equity, and working towards a place where all of our community members have the same access to an ability to engage the systems that are here is a bit different, and that's really what our journey has been about, in terms of how we both articulate that in ways that people can understand and resonates, but also how We begin to really operationalize it on the ground.

Katie (Host) 

Yeah, wow, that was so rich, Zeke. I mean, there's just so much that you cover, but just on that, on the importance of language, I guess a question for you, Monica, especially given that you've been with the organization as a board member longer than Zeke has and and my understanding is that the organization made a commitment to advancing health equity even before Zeke came. So it's not like it came after Zeke's appointment. So will you say more about that? Like, why did, why did Empire Health Foundation explicitly name advancing health equity as a specific goal? Like, so maybe you could, if you could say a little bit more about the why and and some of the ways that you've all discussed it like as a on the board and as an organization, that would be helpful.

Monica 

Um, you know, this has been a process, as Zeke was sharing with us, I was really reminiscing about, oh gosh, the past five or six years. And. I think what is really important to call out is, as Zeke was explaining, and the time that the organization took to have those deep listening sessions was really a an opportunity for us to build that authentic relationship and build that trust. So in eastern Washington, we're kind of scrappy, you know, we haven't always had a lot of resources, and we've had a lot of situations where things were started and stopped, or maybe, you know, a specific, specifically in rural community, where you were kind of forgotten. So there was this real intention to show up, to show up with an open heart and with open ears, and to do it in a way that was sincere. Now, from an organizational standpoint or a business standpoint, it may feel like that takes time, but for us in the heart that was put into building this out, it was necessary. There was a lot of relationship that had to had to be repaired, or there was a lot of partnerships that had to be just fortified. So any type of work and community, I think, first and foremost, has to start with authentic, sincere relationship, versus transactional relationship, which oftentimes, again, being from a marginalized community or maybe a rural community, or maybe from an area in your state where you you you just have maybe not gotten a lot that's critical. And so I think as we moved into this new phase with Empire Health Foundation, with the board and Zeke's leadership, we knew that that was going to be something that was critical, and that was going to be something we had to commit to. So I'm really, really proud of how far we've come and how much we've stayed with that. We have a 10 year strategic plan and direction that is centered in that, that is centered in respecting that community knows best what what their solutions are, and so it's, it's, it's, it's been such a place of empowerment versus paternalistic dictation as to how you should solve your problem. So I would say that spending the time doing that and really anchoring in in a good way has really allowed us to show up in community and be a trusted partner. And at the end of the day, if we want to be part of really moving the needle on positive impact we do have to be a trusted partner.

Zeke 

Katie, can I jump in and just say I love hearing that from Monica. And it makes me think about how when I started here, it was evident to me really quickly that Monica brought what might look like two really different identities with her into this, into her role on our board. And one of those was as you've heard, the understanding and the kind of deep connection in community and in a specific community here in our region. And the second one was as this, you know, kind of badass woman business leader who, frankly, is pretty well known in in the communities that that I walk in, and and, and part of the kind of success that Monica has had there, and that she talks about is like, is getting stuff done right? It's like you got to get in there and move and. And early on, I just remember this kind of what felt to me, but like integration, but may have felt to Monica like two different things between these two understandings that she had. And at first, I think in some ways it was like, kind of like bringing that business perspective first to the work, because that's what's expected in kind of a philanthropic board role. And yet, you know, over time, I think really, really that community perspective has resonated, and both of them are there, and they both are really valuable to us as we engage with Monica and with other board members. But it's like it's holding those two different in some ways, truths at the same time of of like recognizing that, that, you know we do, we do actually have to move at the right speed, and the right speed is the speed that's right for us to be able to work effectively alongside and with our community. And yet, it also requires a level of urgency, because we can't wait to get this done. And so anyway, I just think as I listen to Monica about the journey that you've been on, Monica, in your role on this board, and how that's such a cool reflection, for me, of the work we've been doing, it as an organization, too.

Katie (Host) 

Yes, that's awesome. Yeah, thank you for that. And as I'm listening to the two of you speak, I'm just like, really, like, just struck by the enormity of the change in some ways, like it wasn't just the what that you change. It's like the how you worked, you know, not just with community, but also internally. What are some of the organizational changes and practices that you, what's the transformation that you had to do at a personal level, or even at the organizational level, in order to advance and affect the change in the transformation you want to see in your own community, and to do that in such a diverse and varied geographies and communities that you're working in, not just in terms of by community and by population, or just a rural, urban aspect of your of your geographic region, but also the political context that you mentioned. And so I think the question I want to ask you both to reflect on is so many lessons learned, but as you reflect on, on on what you've the work that you've done, what are some key things that you feel like you've learned or have been challenged by that you would be willing to share with the audience. Because, you know, my assumption is that there are other funders who are trying to do similar work. You know that they may be challenged by the same thing. So, so just curious what you would say, and I'm going to actually leave it to the two of you to decide who wants to answer that first.

Monica 

I'm going first, okay, because it came top of mind. I served on the finance committee, and chaired the finance committee at a time where we were making some moves and really considering impact investing, and I came into that role with that hat of sort of, let's go, let's move. Come on. What's the big deal? I mean, it's as simple as this. No, it's not. Let's go, let's move. And what I learned throughout that whole process is the importance to listen deeply, right? And to get perspective like you, you have to open up space for folks to speak and to and to give their insight and to hear their concerns and to hear their questions. And I found myself initially feeling very, sort of impatient, but what I ended up really knowing, deeply and really learning was the importance of a not only, you know, creating that respectful space, but it's so valuable. It's so valuable to move through that process and get those insights. And if you don't do take the time to do that, I guarantee you you're going to have sustainability problems. Because if we want to make change and we want to shift and we want to do good, we have to step outside of our comfort zones, and there's going to be systems process change, and we have to take the time to be really deliberate and thoughtful and allow it to unfold, and allow and allow it to move. Of course, it has to keep moving, but I think it really requires us to ultimately, at the end of the day, we have to be sustainable. We have to be thoughtful and respectful. And so going through that process really taught me a lot about that, but it also taught me a lot about seeking outside resources as well. So if you're uncertain, and there are you know things that you think you could really your board or your organization, could really learn that there are others out there who have done this, who have done the heavy lifting, that you could lean on on those folks and bring them into your space and and really learn from them that they were there. So that was, to me, such a such a really valuable process, and I'm proud to say for me, personally and professionally, but I'm also proud to say that it was so essential for us to really commit and make the changes that we wanted to make that aligned with our organization. And impact investing was one of those. And once you once, once you kind of go through that motion, you're like, wow, we did that over here. We can do that over here. You know, you can call on that experience and it can fortify you, and it feels less daunting, especially when you're trying, when your intention is good, but you're trying to try to match that up with action, and you have a lot of really smart, diverse, talented folks in the room, and that's a good thing, so take your time and create the space to hear them and to really be thoughtful.

Katie (Host) 

I love that.

Zeke 

I do too, Katie, and I think, you know, just pulling from what that example, that story that Monica told in the middle of it, I think there were a number of times where it felt like to each of us at different points, like we weren't moving fast enough. And yet, I think there is really a recognition at this point that if we had moved more quickly into action on impact investing, we probably wouldn't be equipped to make the right decisions, that we actually feel really confident. It together as a board, as a staff today about where we're headed. And you know, as I think about that, I think if I were to say to you, Katie, you need to change in these ways, I doubt you're actually going to do it, because I said it right, now matter what kind of relationship we have. I mean, don't get me wrong, I can be pretty persuasive, but the reality is, change happens because individuals, families, communities, organizations are ready for the change. Have decided they understand why the change is necessary, and then are equipped to be able to make that change. And part of what we have been really working towards is really figuring out, how do we use our resources to support community when they're ready for change? And in order to do that, we actually have to be ready for that as well. And for me, coming into this role in this community, you know, I had quite a bit of both experience and ideas about what it looks like to really lean into equity, and I was really excited about doing that from a position with the kind of resources that we have as a foundation. But I also had to realize really quickly that we couldn't move at the speed that I wanted to move. We had to move at the speed that the organization was ready to move, and at the speed that our community was ready for. And so the conditions are kind of this key element of any sort of change process, like, where are the conditions? Where are there, where is there opportunity to move those conditions? But when do you actually have the right conditions for change? And you know, an example of where, frankly, where we had to learn really a hard lesson was when I think we moved a little too fast, we were really excited about beginning to bring community together alongside us, so creating an intersectional space where different communities were engaged with us in thinking about what the the work looked like in front of us. And everybody was excited. You know, folks from the communities were asking for this. We're looking for the kind of creation of space where we can really lean in together. But, you know, there's all kinds of traumas and there's all kinds of realities that we bring as communities. We were all swimming in these pretty toxic waters together, and we it's easy to look back now and say it was inevitable that we were going to run into some issues, that there were going to be some ways in which community members showed up and there was dissonance in potentially in values, but definitely in the way that we showed up in the conversation. And we weren't equipped as an organization, our staff wasn't equipped to be able to work through that kind of process. We didn't create the right set of conditions so that people knew what they were getting into and knew how to work through the kind of conflict that's going to occur as we create that space, even when we have good intent together and we did some damage together, it was it was we, and we've had to recover from that. We've had to own up to it and really understand what our role in it was, but also really figure out how we could move with individuals and with communities to be able to really repair and address those issues, and that's not fun work for anybody, and it's hard, especially for the staff that was in the middle of it, feeling like and recognizing maybe I'm not equipped for this, maybe I don't have the right set of skills to move through this kind of work. And so we really pulled back and realized, again, we got to move at the right speed, which also means we can have really good intent about how we want to show up and how we want to use our resources, but, but I've got to make sure we've got to make sure that both our board and our staff are really ready for it and are in a position to to advance that. And some of that's about building a learning culture and a space where it's okay for us to make mistakes and we can learn from each other and and some of that is about really understanding at a core level how what it looks like to look for and to follow leadership from our community partners. And some of that is about how we actually use these resources effectively. A lot of folks don't have, you know, it's not everybody, every day that you've got millions of dollars that you get to think about how you're going to allocate in community so but it's really thinking about, really to the point of kind of operationalizing it. What are the skills that are required, what are the conditions that are required, and what's the culture that's required in order to support people to work through that process, which isn't a linear process. It's not like we just move forward. It's really a cyclical process. And how do we create the space so that, so that we're really comfortable doing that, sometimes uncomfortable work together, and also recognizing real movement. As you know, Monica's example with impact investing is a great one. Where do we identify the kind of change that we're making, how we're solidifying that, and then take those wins and celebrate them together?

Katie (Host) 

Yeah, yeah. No, I so appreciate that. And I feel like everything both of you are saying, I want to ask like, 20 million follow up questions, but just on that point of, like, you know, I think what you're both describing is just the importance of adaptive leadership versus, like, seeing this as a technical problem, which I know the three of us have talked about, but you know, I guess the question I want to ask you to think about is, what advice would you have for other funders and who are engaging in this work? So Zeke, you know, your last comment you talked about, you know, we've learned a lot. Like, it's not about being perfect, it's about like doing and learning. And we've learned a lot about the kinds of mindsets that we have to carry, or we've learned a lot about the conditions that has to be ripe or exist in the community. We've learned a lot about, you know, different types of that it's not a linear process, that it's it could be kind of a couple steps forward, sideways, backwards, and so I'm just curious, like, what advice do you have? What kind of what are those critical mindsets, or what are those enabling environments? What advice would you give for people who are listening into this asking those kinds of questions?

Zeke 

It makes me think about one of the things that I've wrestled with personally, which is recognizing the privileges that we have as a philanthropic organization, embracing those privileges, but not getting too comfortable with them. And an example I would give is we actually do have the ability to pause and to move at a speed that allows for us to create the right conditions, that allows for us to create the opportunity for our staff, for our boards, to gain experience, to be equipped to be in the positions we're talking about. Most of our community partners don't have that. They don't have that luxury. They don't have that space. And so one, we need to recognize that as a privilege. Two, I think we need to be intentional about how we use that. We can actually take a little more time to be clear and to create the space so that we can move fast when we want to move fast. But three, we can't get comfortable in that either. We get, you know, I think, appropriately accused often of navel gazing in our space because, because we can get really enamored with let's just look at ourselves and try to figure out who we are and and the reality, like I said, is our partners don't have that opportunity. But how do we extend that space in ways that are possible, so that our partners can do some of that as well. You know, I had, we had a group of community leaders that we provided with an opportunity to engage in some organizing training nationally. They we brought them together to talk about their experiences. And one of the things that a couple of them, you know, talked about was just how amazing it was to have this opportunity to go out of town, to leave your your work, at home for a day or two, to engage with peers who are working on some of these same things, to identify those places where it's like, Hey, we're doing that too. Actually, that's not that different. Boy. We're not, you know, we get stuck in Spokane thinking we were pretty unique, and yet it's like, oh, actually, this relationship and and I just sat there and listened, and I thought, boy, we really have to create more of that kind of space. We need to extend the privilege that we get for others to be able to be in that place too. And that looks to me like being thoughtful about what the conditions are, what the conditions need to be for change. It looks like being honest with ourselves about what our role is and our position is in change work, and it looks like having the privilege to be able to really understand and to lean into what it means to give our resources to support community leadership and community self determination, so that it's sustainable, so that that change process really actually takes hold in a different way.

Katie (Host) 

Yeah. What about you, Monica, especially for board members, you know, like, I'm wondering, what it what advice you have for how I love the example that you gave about you know, from your experience with impact investing, just some of the tensions that you had to hold, and in the ways that you really grounded yourself in, in kind of the present moment, and building trust and relationship. But yeah, what? What other advice would you have for board members of foundations?

Monica 

I think it's it's an interesting place to be in as a board member. You know you are. You do have a governance responsibility and an obligation, and so oftentimes we can go into situations and into meetings and into work, so to speak, with that mindset, but we have to remind ourselves to bring the lens or the understanding of the communities we serve. And so I feel like oftentimes we can get caught up in the duties, and then we have to stop and even ground ourselves and say, Okay, let's take a look at how important this is, to establish that relationship and establish that trust. You know, I. I've I'm just going to be real honest here. I think oftentimes when we give, when foundations and funders give, there's, there's judgment attached to that, and there's a lot of obligation attached to that, and there's data to report, and there's, you know, this is how we want you to make impact. This fits into our mission and and so when you are aligning that with understanding that if you do really honestly want to create those partnerships, that it's not a one and done, it's it's a journey. And perhaps me, as a board member, I have a unique perspective, just because I've been, you know, living in a in a very isolated community. I've understood a lot of the challenges that that my community faces, and so I always remind myself, you know, to bring that as well. And so I think, especially if you're working in a board where you work hard to have diverse perspective and diverse experiences, like we do at Empire Health Foundation, that those are all really, really valuable. I mean, I know it's important for the governance piece and for us to have those hats, but it's also just as important for us to remember that impact may not like, we can't just be thinking about it as data, and we can't be just thinking about the giving to be like, okay, you know, here's what I expect back but to really take a look at at a lot of those just just those relationships and really allowing and building that trust, I mean, I'm so that that's so much a part of why I know positive change happens when we really trust the communities that are there, that are working like in community. So Zeke was, was talking about, you know, some of the opportunity we provided to for nonprofit organizations, and they were able to lift out and learn. Because, guess what? They were like, wow. Because this is my life like, this is what I do day to day. I am in this. This is where my heart is, and we have a lot of respect for that. We have a lot of appreciation for that. So yes, we are board members and we're we have these responsibilities of governance, but we also have to remember like, like, the heart and the spirit of the folks that we're serving and the organizations that we're serving, and we have to be able to to see their perspective as well.

Zeke 

Boy, a personal challenge is, there's, there's, there's a few. I mean, there's a degree to which, when I took this job and saw what the opportunity was, which really represented a foundation that, as you had mentioned already, was clear, that health equity was at its core, at its mission, and a board and a staff that when I got here, had done, I think, some real soul searching in terms of, like, what is our role, and where are we and how have we been in relationship to community. So when I got here, I saw this, what it felt like a really cool opportunity to really ground the organization in relationship to community in a different way and in and some of that looked like recognizing that we were going to show up different than people might have anticipated that we had in the past. So there was this kind of story about empire, Health Foundation, that we were that our job was to be apolitical, because that's how you can create a neutral table where you can bring people together and get to different solutions. You can imagine how that kind of a story in a place like this, with really strong conservative perspectives and and really strong progressive perspectives was both kind of a nice idea, but doesn't really but it's our. To make it, I don't know if it really works, to be honest. So I knew that as we started to move and change, that we would raise the hackles of some folks. I didn't quite know that it would show up on all three television stations with with a sheriff and a mayor calling me out. And, you know, I mean, sure I would be lying if I didn't say that that kind of personal critique isn't hard. It's been harder, frankly, when it's happened in community like, you know, as I mentioned before, you know, our communities, our communities of color, our 2slbtqia+ community, are communities that have been persistently under resourced and persistently held out of positions of power, have built a set of skills and coping in that context which help you survive but don't necessarily move you forward. And there's a lot of the trauma that comes up in the work that we're doing, and sometimes I've been called out specifically, and that's, yeah, again, it's like, it's one thing when, when a mayor who I don't share values with, and when a sheriff who I also don't share values with does that, it's, in fact, that's almost like an indicator of, like, okay, we're pushing some of the right buttons here. So another thing when it happens with people who I see in our community, in our communities of color, and I really appreciate in terms of the change they're trying to make, but I also see the amount of trauma that people are living with, and it's that happened that has happened in and with our staff as well, and figuring out how to kind of create the fortitude, I think, is a word that Monica used before, but personally and then positionally. You know, if we're doing our work right as the president of a foundation with the mission and vision that we have and the approach that we want to take, we got to be able to put ourselves out there, sometimes for and take the knocks that come with it. And we also, you know, we we spent a good bit of time as an organization, a board and staff talking about the fact that, you know, we are still a foundation, and we still represent philanthropy in all of its warts and philanthropic institutions, you know, are mostly a function of, kind of trying to create tax havens. Yes, you can do good with them, but so working through like, what does it mean to represent this organization in this space? And then how do I think about that as an individual and as a human being, and how do I both, again, really lean into what the privilege is that this affords my position and this organization, even when it doesn't look and feel to me like either privilege that I've ever been thought of as mine before, or even that I'm comfortable with. But how do you how do I wrestle in that space with holding this mostly, I'm really excited to be doing this work in this place, I feel so honored that this community and that this board has entrusted me with the position that I'm in, and I love walking alongside those community members, our board members, in the work that we're doing, and I know that at some point I'll be able to walk off and that the organization and the communities will continue doing the really great work that they're doing. So there's both truth to the personal, and it's also like, I'm a real lucky, lucky person.

Katie (Host) 

Yeah, no, I love that. I love the themes of like, it's a we, not like an I versus you, and just the reciprocity of building the collective. And I do want to ask you, Zeke, I'm so fascinated by that story that you shared earlier about the sheriff and the press conference and you getting personally called out. And just, you know, you talking about the importance of language, and how when one person uses a word, they might not have the same working definition as some as someone else. And so I love to ask you about, yeah, like, what have you found as like, a personal challenge, like, something like, how, how have you personally, like, dealt with what seems like opposition, opposition to you at a personal level, or to the work. And if you could just say a little bit more about what you're learning, about how you talk about this in ways that that can resonate, if it resonates, I just would love for you to go deeper on that. So what's a personal challenge? And what are you really finding about how you could talk about this in a way that really helps to bridge, you know, if that's a possibility? Yeah, and I so appreciate that, and I really also appreciate just your fank, yeah, just candid reflections on on the challenges of, at a personal level, of of being in this work. And, you know, one of our other goals for doing this season was that we wanted to create a virtual community of like minded people who are doing this work in so many different contexts. I mean, so much of what you and Monica have shared resonates deeply with me in my own experience and and my and I think that for the audience listening to this, they probably would be like, oh yeah, oh yeah. Like, the trauma, the hurt, the way that we can hurt each other, especially again, within our own community, and how, how painful at times that could be. So I do want to ask you, like, what's one thing that each of you like, maybe it's like a personal practice, but how do you maintain your fortitude or your resiliency? And maybe, just like, one thing that you do that could be like good advice for others and Monica, maybe I'll start with you, like, what's one thing you do to really keep on going with this work, both the joy and the challenge of it?

Monica 

I am so incredibly optimistic, you know, and I have a lot of faith in and optimism, and I'm just genuinely, genuinely have a lot of belief. I don't know that's just me, you know, I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna be part of the solution. I'm not gonna be part of the problem. I'm gonna hope, you know, but I can't come to spaces skeptical. I have to come to spaces hopeful. And that's just always been me.

Katie (Host) 

Yeah that's awesome. Thank you. And Zeke, what would you share?

Zeke 

Yeah, I mean, one of them is having folks like Monica, right?

Katie (Host) 

Exactly what I was gonna say, have someone like Monica on your board.

Zeke 

Absolutely no doubt. And, yeah, that is fully, completely true. And you know, another fairly easy, but not easy to do. Answer is, breathe right? It's like you gotta breathe through it. And I think, I guess, on a more personal level, I'll just say, and I know that these kinds of experiences are shared by a lot of folks on our board, on our staff and our community. But you know, we're, we're having this conversation in September, October will be the five year anniversary of my little brother passing away of a drug overdose. And I share that because sometimes when it gets hard, sometimes when I'm feeling good about what we're doing, I think about him, and I think about other people that I've known who aren't in a position to feel the hope that somebody like Monica brings, or to see the profound and beautiful excitement of young leaders in our communities, and don't have and didn't have the kinds of resources that I have at my disposal. So, you know, I wake up every day thinking about Chase, and that helps me.

Katie (Host) 

Thank you, Zeke. Thank you for yeah, thank you for sharing that story and for invoking your brother's presence in this conversation, and oh my gosh, this has been I can, like, keep on going forever, and I know that our time is coming to a close, and I just so much of what you said. The one common theme that I just kept hearing over and over again is how much joy and gratitude you have for the community and for the neighbors that you get to work with, both internally, inside your organization and externally, with your partners and grantees. And so what's one thing that you love about the place and the communities that you are part of, that you're working with on a daily basis, and maybe, if you could just Yeah, end with that, like, what's one thing that you love or that you hope for your community?

Monica 

Well I love I love that my people have always been here, and I love that this place means so much to so many that we are in a position today to really be a place of good spirit, and that we are sharing as we have always intended to share. You know, we have our Indigenous people, our tribal people have always come from a place seriously of if I can help, I need to help, and it would be shameful of me if I did not help. And so as I work alongside our board members and the Empire Health Foundation staff, it reminds me that I'm in a good place. I really am.

Katie (Host) 

That's so awesome. Thank you both so much for not only your time, but you for your incredible leadership. You know, as I, as I listen to the two of you today, and even as I read your many documents, what really comes across is, is really love. You know, I think the word love is actually in your strategic healing framework, just the incredible love that you have for each other, you know, just in terms of your your both of your relationship, that's obvious, but just the love that you have for your neighbors and for your community members, and the kind of you know, hope that you have for everyone in your community to live with health, wellness and dignity. It's, yeah, I don't, I don't think, I think that we who talk a lot about equity, could sometimes be very abstract, but ultimately, when it comes down to it, it really is the work of loving each other and loving our neighbors and so that came through so much in this conversation. I just want to I'm so grateful not not only for the work that you're leading every day, but for your generosity in sharing your stories with whoever is listening. So thank you. Thank you very much, and.

Zeke 

Thank you for this opportunity.

Monica 

Thank you.

Katie (Host) 

Awesome.Yay.

Zeke 

Talk to you later. See you. Monica

Monica 

That's a wrap.

Nancy (Host) 

Can we talk about is a podcast by Philanthropy Northwest, written and produced by Aya Tsuruta and Emily Daman, with audio engineering support from Jessie McCune at podfly, and graphic design by Asha Hossain. We'll be releasing season two episodes throughout the fall. So make sure you're following us on your favorite podcasting platform to stay up to date. A huge thank you to Katie Hong, Robin Martin and Abby Sarmac for hosting this season, and to the Ford Foundation for making this project possible. I'm Nancy Sanabria, and we'll see you next time.