Estakio Beltran and Bill and Holly Marklyn

Holly 

Wealth should not, in my view, be the reason for power, which is what The Share Fund has been all about is trying to sort of decouple wealth and power.

Nancy (Host) 

From The Giving Practice at Philanthropy Northwest this is "Can We Talk About...?" a project to normalize the messiness of leading for racial equity in philanthropy, and reflect on what it takes to create lasting transformation. In this special episode, we're joined by three guests, Estakio, Holly and Bill, who take us beyond the bounds of traditional governance in philanthropy, and into a new world of giving that makes the redistribution of wealth and power a reality. Their conversation centers around The Share Fund, sits within an LLC and is managed through a participatory process, where community leaders like Estakio make all funding decisions and funders, Holly and Bill play supporting roles. Here are our guests introducing themselves.

Estakio 

Hi, my name is Estakio Beltran, and I am a founding member of The Share Fund. I also serve as partnership advisor for Native Americans in Philanthropy, which is a national organization. I use he/him pronouns, and I'm very happy to be here.

Holly 

Hi, I'm Holly Marklyn. I use she/her pronouns. My husband, Bill, and I are the co-founders of The Share Fund. We live in Seattle, Washington, and have three adult grown children.

Bill 

Hi, my name is Bill Marklyn, I'm Holly's husband, and with her co-founded, The Share Fund and live with her in Seattle.

Estakio 

Well, I'm imagining that we're back in your home, having dinner in your backyard, you know, which was really the beginning of all of this, you know that beautiful meal that you all hosted in your home, and shared that sense of community with us. I'm very excited to be talking about The Share Fund, and to just share the journey that got us here, and the good work that we're doing now.

Bill 

Yeah, and to be honest, and it was great to sharing a meal in your home as well.

Estakio 

Yeah, I hope we get a chance to talk about that, because that menu, we worked on that menu. And that fish was so good, I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. So.

Holly 

It was very clear you had worked on that menu. It was awesome.

Estakio 

So, so The Share Fund is a grant making body focused on supporting racial and gender justice in Washington State. And the fund is committed to sharing both wealth and power and as much of it as as possible through the really the remarkable participatory grantmaking model that the two of you envisioned. So we're really excited to get into those details.

Bill 

Yes, it's the embodiment of our commitment to redistribute our wealth in our lifetimes. So hopefully.

Holly 

Yeah, and I can talk a little, just for a minute about sort of how we got here. And then I actually want to also hear Estakio of how it felt for you to come into it. Well, first of all, wealth is new to us. We both grew up middle class. And so this whole notion of having wealth, and what does that mean? And what do we do with it, and coupled with some learnings along the way, that really deepened our understanding of racial equity and systemic racism and wealth inequality led us sort of to the first big decision for us, which was that we didn't, we did not want to perpetuate intergenerational transfer of wealth we did, we wanted to distribute our wealth in our lifetime. And then in doing that, we were and looking at how we might do that. We also sort of, were seeing all the inequity in terms of how philanthropy is structured and how philanthropy operates. And given that racial and gender equity were the focus for us, it made no sense to us to be the ones deciding how to distribute our wealth, which is sort of how The Share F'und came about. And Bill you I don't know if you have more on the background.

Bill 

Well, that racial and gender equity focus was interesting, because we had our own versions of philanthropy before this, we we always gave money, and we tried to be organized about it and come up with our areas of focus, like education or women's health and so on. And one of the buckets was racial and gender equity and then with with our work and thinking, it occurred to us, you know, that's not a bucket that that's, that's everything. It's in every single one of those buckets and, and so how can what can we do that would that addresses all of it?

Holly 

So that's sort of the where the idea of participatory grantmaking came in and then once we said that we were like, well, we shouldn't be the ones setting that up either we should we be also shouldn't be deciding how that works. And that's where you Estakio come in because we then through Stephanie and Phylis started looking for some people who could participate. And one of my questions for you is, I'm sort of curious how it felt to get that communication sort of out of the blue. And what is this and trust being one of sort of the things that I think is been fundamental on this journey. You know, how did because I have to believe there wasn't necessarily a lot of trust at the start, like, what is this? Is it real? So, you know, what did, what was your experience of that? And how, how did trust evolve or develop or grow for you in the process? Both with us and with your fellow committee members?

Estakio 

Yeah, this was a, this was wild, you know, I remember getting that email. Somebody, you know, I did ask around, I'm like, Who is, you know, Phylis? Stephanie? Is anybody, you know, trying to get a sense of, you know, from others in the community about what this was about? Because, you know, I think the most common question or phrase associated to The Share Fund has always been like, is it real? We get that a lot. You know, and that was the question that I was asking, you know, myself as well, like, is this real, I really appreciated hearing you talk about this Bill, because earlier when you said, you know, that race and gender equity, like, that's everything it is, it is everything, and it's so much of the weight, you know, especially for communities of color. And so I really appreciate the way you got there, you know, on your own and, and then the email that I received was just wild, I remember, you know, because there was no process, there was no application process, there was no, you couldn't look it up on a website, there was no Share Fund website. And so they just told me about this idea about, you know, a new fund that was getting started, and that they were looking for, you know, people that had two qualities and it was trusting and trustworthy. And I remember hearing and holding on to those, those two words, because it's sort of like, you know, the opposite sides of the same coin, you know, you still have to be trusting in terms that you still have to believe that the best, the, you know, the best of a community has to offer is still ahead. And you have to have maintain that positive attitude to continue to trust in these, these, you know, new partnerships, new relationships, and to bring an advocate for more resources, you have to continue to be trusting, and you also have to be trustworthy, you know, people, especially in philanthropy, you know, they entrust you with resources, to get them out into the community and to do that, using, you know, higher, you know, like standards of ethical conduct, and then to truly be connected and listening to the community and to trying to match those needs, with with these resources, and to get them where they can make the biggest impact. And that's, um, it can take a lot of work. But it was that invitation that came from you guys. And the fact that you all we're looking for people, selecting people that would meet these community leaders that would meet that role. And it was, um, it was, it was exciting also to get finally in space with The Share Fund. And I think this was all started virtually at the beginning, because this was during the pandemic. And so it added another layer of newness, and then maybe it was hard, maybe at the beginning was a little more more challenging to really understand what this was all about, because we couldn't get in person. It wasn't until we got to your home, and you hosted that dinner for us. Which, again, was another really beautiful part of how we established and anchored this relationships, around food, and around sharing. And it was wonderful to break bread. And not just the fact that we were breaking bread, but we could have been at a restaurant anywhere in in Seattle, but instead you hosted in your backyard and walked we had walked through your garden to get there. And it was beautiful. And I really appreciated because it felt like you were sharing, you know, other parts of you as well. And so I was really grateful. The questions again, at the very beginning, where is this real? What is this? And is this real?

Bill 

Yeah, speaking of trust, I kind of sensed at the beginning. I'm not sure what the right word is timid, timidity timidness? You know, over how much power did you guys have? You know, if we decide this, what are Bill and Holly going to say?

Estakio 

Yeah, I think it might be helpful for people to understand the context of how when when we meet and we do meet virtually, it's just the committee members and and then a facilitator, Stephanie and the team at Phīla Giving, who really, you know, keep the word going. And they play such a tremendous support role in facilitating our conversations, but, you know, you guys aren't present in the room or you guys weren't at the very beginning. You would stay and do quick introductions and make sure that people knew you know, again, go into that trust and trustworthy. But um, then you guys leave and so then once you guys are out of the room, then here we are having these you know, difficult conversations around funding and the needs in our community and in creating a space where we're able to have real talk about the real issues in our community. And then, you know, the question became, you know, you guys literally gave us a blank piece of paper and a blank check and really left it up to us to determine the direction of everything. And that was really hard to believe at the beginning. And, you know, some of my colleagues really questioned that, and we're maybe timid is the right word around, you know, trying to exercising, what that that level of creativity could really look like. And I was, I was determined to push those, push the edge of that, I said, Well, let's really explore what does that really mean, you know, could we really make these funding decisions in whatever way we want? And what what would that look like, rather than following, you know, a template that could have been so easily copied and pasted from, you know, anywhere else to bring to this work, let's see what we can do together and how we might be able to share this wealth differently. And so I like that The Share Fund, you know, we fund things differently and on purpose. And that's been a really, really good part of participating in this work.

Holly 

As you talk about that, I think about some of the early months. And as you said, we weren't in the meetings, we always watch them after the fact they were on Zoom, and they were recorded, and we would watch them. And it was a really interesting exercise. For one, just really sort of mind opening to watch how you guys approached the questions of how to fund and how to look at philanthropy differently. Sort of the whole decolonizing philanthropy conversations that happened, which we would never have arrived at, if we were trying to think about how do we fund and who are we going to give to? And, you know, at first we were like, Okay, well, it's the funding committee. But then we were like, Well, no, but they also have to decide how to work together as a committee what, you know, what, how are you going to operate together? What are the granting mechanisms going to be? What are your stipends going to be? You know, what is a conflict of interest policy look like, you know, all the traditional things that we had been thinking about, that we handed to you and said, No, you guys should be the ones deciding this, which I think stretched both us and the committee initially, in terms of making those sort of process decisions. And I'd love to hear you talk a little more about some of those decisions that the process decisions that sort of had to happen in order to then arrive at the granting piece later on.

Estakio 

It was a remarkable opportunity to be able to have a space where we could be in the in the driver's seat, while having these conversations. Not in you know, it changes the dynamic when you're engaging in this in this conversation with a potential funder, right? People are sort of hesitant, you know, and they weigh their words differently. But when it was, you know, the entire committee is made up of people of color. And so when you're in that space, we're able to get to, you know, to the root of some of these, you know, not the uncomfortable conversations pretty quickly. The issue of decolonizing felt right away, you know, I felt it when we were trying to okay, so now we have to create a structure. So what is what is our grant cycle look like? What is our, you know, conflict of interest and confidentiality forms look like, and it was, so it was so easy, it would have been so easy to just copy and paste these things from existing resources, and then just sort of venture differently, but not really too differently from, you know, other protocols or models. What I appreciated is that we really sat with these issues, and question them, and because we had that safe space, and the guidance and the facilitator, you know, we were able to really, truly imagine, what could we do differently. And one of the things that we have found, you know, through experience as people of color is that oftentimes that that confidence that um, conflict of interest form gets weaponized against you, particularly in smaller communities in rural areas where one person might be wearing multiple hats in the community, or through family, you know, be related to various other leaders in the community. That's not uncommon in smaller communities, especially rural communities, and also in indigenous communities where family and extended family relate and connect to each other differently. So we wanted to be able to look at that as a strength, not a weakness, and to be able to call it in to the decision making process and invite that knowledge into the work as opposed to staying away from it and being scared of it. I think it also stems from the fact that being out here in rural communities, you know, you can still buy a pickup truck on a handshake. And it's grounded on the relationships that that we have established in the community. You know, people know your family and your family will know my family. And so there's an incentive to want to uphold your side of the bargain because of that. And I think it really lends itself well, to how we wanted to show up in community when we were making these investments, to do it from a position of strength, and to use all of our networks really just start viewing our lived experience in the community as leaders and our experience as people of color. And to bring that in to the decision making tables as a strength, not a liability. The other part that that really focused us on was on how are we going to live up to what we're doing here. And that brought us to one of the first set of decisions that we had to make, which was that we wanted to walk in our own truth, when we said that we were going to change the gender inequalities in the way that resources are, are handed out in the state. And, and so for us, it meant, you know, my other male colleague, Rashad and I, we were listening to the stories that were shared by the women on the committee, who spoke about the wage gap, the gender gap, and what a difference, you know, that is made as it compounds in throughout their lifetime. And what it felt like to know that you're putting in the same amount of work, but you're getting less money on your paycheck at the end of the day. And those conversations were again, because they were in a safe container, The Share Fund container, you know, they got real. And so we made the decision to give the women in the group that 18% back, in addition to what they were receiving, for their work at The Share Fund and but also in giving them additional power in terms of the award amount that women would give, would ultimately should also ultimately reflect the fact that we would trust women to do this work at a higher rate than then a man in a way to like address that inequality and that gap, that wage gap that our women have experienced. And I have to tell you that from a personal perspective, at first, I thought, okay, well, it's just 18%, I don't know what that's going to be like, let's do some math, I've imagined a little bit of change here, a little bit of change there. But when you see the end of the total impact at the end of the year, and what it makes in dollars, the amount in dollars, it's it's significant. And to me, that was a real wake up call to something that I hadn't, I hadn't had the opportunity to experience personally. But I was able to experience through this. And I was grateful that we're able to bring that to the work, and that we're able to also do something about it, not just talk about it, but to also reflect it in our work and with ourselves and with each other.

Bill 

In doing that work. So something that makes me think of something that we've struggled with both before we started and during this process, which is one of the things white people tend to do with people of color is put the burden of change on them. Right? It's, oh, we see the problem, here's some money, you know, let us use your expertise to our advantage. And maybe you guys can solve the problem or something. So I guess my question is, is, does it feel like a burden? How have we succeeded because we're, you know, our byline is share the wealth, share the power. And personally, I feel like, I try to be of service to you guys, to the committee to make your lives easier to do the actual work. But how does it feel from your side?

Estakio 

Why I would, first of all, just, you know, want to say thank you, because I believe that you absolutely have you know, you've succeeded at that, and have really made made the work. It's been really powerful. So first, just thank you, because you you have you and Holly are both really modeled, what does it really mean to serve and you bring that with you to our gatherings and, and in the way that you interact with, with the group. So I just want to say thank you for first and foremost, it, it hasn't felt like work. It's felt more like just this amazing opportunity, that you have to make a difference. And it almost feels like something that, you know, our communities are, there's no shortage of great ideas and amazing opportunities that we have. You know, we've been thinking about them for a long time. And some of us still hold on to those, you know that that hope that things can change for the better. And it isn't until you run into an opportunity like this, that you're able to bring some of those visions to reality and some of those opportunities and resources to the community and as community members and leaders in our own communities. And we're located all over Washington state that The Share Fund is very pretty well diverse than the sectors of that that each of our community leaders represent and the geographic areas in the state of Washington that they live in, you know, when we go around community, we're literally doing the work with with our own hands and our own feet. And you hear the stories of those who are struggling, and who have this idea, you know, like, if only, there would be a bus stop right here, so that we could get, you know, to and from daycare faster, if only there was this thing right there. If only we had access to more attorneys, if only I could go to law school to become an attorney. And so we sort of carry all of these, I call them prayers, you know, that the community has for each other, you know, that hope. And so we hear them. And this was an opportunity to respond to those prayers with real resources behind them, and an opportunity to try new things and to innovate in a way that the community has been asking for, and have it be community led through the channels that our members are able to make possible, they lend their networks, their expertise. And so you're able to really create something unique, that is community driven, and funded 100%, by the work of community members, and by The Share Fund and so I would say that you have succeeded tremendously. That is one of the biggest, you know, like, benefits of the work that has been done, done well here with The Share Fund is, you've succeeded at that. And you've you found a way to make it possible to do that work and to have it not feel like a burden, because the pairing the partnerships that we have with Phīla  Giving, and how they're able to do you know, the structure, so they run, what would you call it, like the back of the house, like the office, you know, like the administrative aspects of this work. And so when when we need research, or when we need, you know, like information on this sector, or whatever they are, you know, dedicated, they work really hard, and they present that information to us that then allow us to just be able to focus on the actual part of the work the the change making work, and in that work out there and community, making those differences, listening to those community members, and then bringing about some of those best ideas.

Bill 

You talk so much about community, I just wanted to make the one comment that one thing I've learned from this whole process, participating, but really from from the background, is how important the relationships are, and how much you bring that into into your work. Philanthropy, before this for us, or for me, and just when I look around is so transactional, it's almost like a business. And when you bring in community and relationships, that's different.

Estakio 

Yes. And it can also be disingenuous, you know, because there's mission statements that, you know, it's hard to live up to, I think what I love about the model of The Share Fund is that, you know, it's really powered through the social intelligence, of real life, you know, changemakers in the community. This is what I'm so hopeful about this model, because, um, you know, when you fund like, let's say, if you were to invest your money in through a community foundation, or an organization like that, you're also spending money on their board, board meetings, board lunches, you're paying to get them up to speed to educate the board, on the challenges that are happening out in the community, you know, you're paying for CEO salaries, you're paying for a lot more overhead, that you get sort of directly already in the room by nature of bringing in these community leaders, and putting them in the position to make those decisions that come with all of that. And I think it sort of leapfrogs the impact of your resources, because you're investing in community through and through.

Holly 

Hearing you say that makes me think of another aspect, when you were talking about foundations and the boards and all the structure, which also gets into a lot of the white power stuff. But the other piece of that, and this was an intentional decision on our part is that foundations and many philanthropic sort of giving structures are restricted to C3 giving. And that was something we intentionally did not want to do. We like to be able to think that a lot of this work is systemic in nature, that it is that it should be unrestricted in terms of how it's approached, that it might involve legislation that it might involve individuals doing individual work, not just philanthropic organizations that are C3 organizations that serve wealthy white people's tax benefits in terms of philanthropy, in addition to, as you said, the board and all that sort of hierarchy and structure and making it more directly involved. And I know that you've ventured a little into some of the individual and political giving as part of the donations, which was something that we wanted to make possible. I don't know that it's we don't know that it's the right answer. We wanted to make things sort of open ended and unrestricted for you all, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on different forms of giving, and what makes sense.

Estakio 

As a person of color in, in the field of philanthropy, it can be hard. You know, it's hard because, you know, there, there are some of those governance structures that, as you pointed out, Holly are grounded in Robert's Rules of Order and resolutions, and that ultimately end up becoming barriers to those good ideas. That, you know, I think people forgot that philanthropy is supposed to feel good, that it's supposed to feel good to be able to, like help your community in the way that you can, and it's supposed to feel good to receive that help. And I think at the crux of what the gold that The Share Fund has found, is that it connects you back to that feeling of good. And for a person of color and involved in philanthropy, there's, there's a sense of like, you can't work fast enough, when you see the need, that is evident in the community, and then the pot of resources that are here, you know, in the millions that have been raised and dedicated to help meet some of those needs. And when you go out and you deliver some of these resources, and the person who's receiving them, sees a reflection of themselves in you, as a different kind of, of payment for the work, you know, and it also creates a different sense of urgency, because if we wanted to solve, truly solve some of the the especially, some of the social challenges that really impact our communities, you wouldn't be investing in them differently if the people that were there struggled with them, looked like you. And I think that makes a difference, too, is that through this model, we move with a greater sense of purpose, and, and a faster response rate and response time, and you've removed the barriers, you've removed the barriers, because oftentimes, you know, in the antiquated models of giving, through community foundations and others, they, they, there's always a wall that you run into, which is whether it's oh, wait, but they're not a 501 C3, this is a group that's doing amazing work, they're changing people's lives, they're actually are getting response, you know, from the community and bringing down that house lessness rates, you know, suicide rates, there's there's real legitimate concerns, you know, the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women, you know, that is an urgency, women and girls are dying, and people would invest wouldn't let that happen, I think if they were more connected to those communities, but the best way to reach them may not always be you know, through a 501 C3 or through another type of established structure. But by creating that true flexibility, you remove those barriers that oftentimes prevent really good ideas from coming alive. And that applies to politics as well, because you do your best to try to look up river to see what's happening. That's, you know, contributing directly to the challenges of our communities. And as you look up the river, and you see what, what's bringing our communities down, sometimes it's a local fix, sometimes it's the fix is a little bit bigger than that, it's easy to lose hope, when you think that it is something that cannot change, because it's either politics or policies. And again, if you're stuck in the old antiquated model of thinking, only funding 501 C3's, or getting into the those sort of locked in and pigeonholed into this those solutions, then you can't see the through line to success, you can't see the real hope. But with the the way that, you know, we've structured The Share Fund, to be able to fund you know, candidates, and individuals, and nonprofits and 501 C3's and you know, anywhere that these community leaders believe will make the difference for you know, gender, and racial justice in the state of Washington. That's the way that you really should be doing philanthropy, if you want to make a difference. Otherwise, you know, once you run into a wall, that's it, that becomes it. And so then people end up you know, but yeah, I think it truly was the removal of the ultimate barriers when it comes to power, because there is a direct connection between some of the work that needs to be done out there in community some of the need that philanthropy goes, you know, it's the same funders that have the resources to fund the philanthropy and then also are able to make those contributions to those candidates that make those policies that then circle back to the impact that we live with in our communities. So being able to, as an organization, make some of those contributions where we felt collectively that they can make the biggest difference was again, an ultimate game changer for our communities. I think it was also like a true transfer of wealth. I remember when, you know, one of our colleagues made a political contribution. And she talked about how there was no, is that a moment where she maybe felt a little bit more vulnerable. And this wasn't really a space that she felt comfortable in the political arena. But she knew that, you know, the only time she was going to have to really get the attention of this, you know, up and coming elected official was when she was going to be delivering a check to his campaign. And she knew that that conversation was going to be the only time you know, where he might really have, you know, her, give her undivided attention. And she thought long and hard about what she was going to say, when she handed that check and where that money was coming from, and what difference she hoped that it could make in guiding his campaign. And of course, you know, you can't hold them to it. But that conversation that she had, I think did, and hopefully it anchored, you know, that individual and their campaign to want to make a difference that this community member brought up. You know, um, what does it feel like to know that you know, that your money is making this difference? And what does it feel like to, to hear some of those, you know, the either meetings that we have, from the minutes and the videos, or you know, when you've been, we've had a number of now in person gatherings where we've shared meals again, what does that feel like for you all to know that, you know, you were the ones who make all of that possible?

Holly 

I think in some ways, it's the ultimate reward of all of this for two reasons. One is it makes it so personal. And it's so inspiring to see all this work that's happening, that we would not have known about, that can be empowered with additional funds. That is making exactly the kinds of differences in terms of race and gender that we would have imagined but couldn't have found. And then the other piece that feels rewarding about it, is it feels so for me, now, so coherent with my values, like giving before felt important, and it felt like there were issues that I cared about, but it felt sort of anonymous. And this feels personal, but also sort of deeply aligned with what I believe not only giving should be but how it should be done. It just feels right to be doing it this way, to a degree that I haven't felt before as a donor. Like as Bill said, we've been donors forever in one form or another. And there have been organizations we funded that I cared about a lot. And this feels like that, but in a really broad sense. And so for me, that's pretty potent.

Bill 

Oh, I agree completely. And I keep touching on this, the relationship community aspect of it. But I feel like, well, there's two things that go on from here, one is a little more removed from that the fact that we watch your meetings afterwards. And I feel like I get to be that fly on the wall. I wonder what people say when they get together and talk about these things. And then I get to hear it. But then the times we've gotten together of the stories we hear from you, but also from the grantees that people have received the money, who accept us into their community, which is something we've never get from our other ways of giving other other types of giving that we've done. It's it's really rewarding.

Estakio 

You know, one of the ways in which we do that, and, you know, we were intentional, and we we wanted, we wanted to have food as a centerpiece. And so started with a dinner hosted by you guys in your home. And then you know, we hosted a dinner in our home and invited some of the grant recipients to attend. You know, I'll never forget this because it really speaks to the truly the shift in power. We know it was almost like halfway through the dinner. And finally one of the one of the members of the group, who was a returning citizen doing tremendous work in the community, really leading the way for a lot of the volunteering, that happens, mentorship that happens. And he's so thankful for the resources that he gets through The Share Fund, that he wanted to make sure to say some words. And so halfway through the dinner, he comes up, you know, and we're sitting there, and I'm sitting next to you guys, and he says, Hey, Estakio when are the funders gonna get here? You know, tell me make sure you tell me when they get here because I have some really nice words to tell them and I just started laughing because, you know, there you are, you know, sitting right next to us and there was no, I think it was a testament to the fact that he really, truly brought down those those barriers and those power dynamics where, you know, antiquated or traditional ways. You know, there has to be that big check or that smiling donor with that person who's you know, maybe doesn't feel so great about how deep of a need you know, they find themselves in, you know, or, you know, sometimes those photos can be really uncomfortable. But, you know, we had removed the barriers, and the dynamics had shifted so much that even the people present couldn't identify you guys, as the donors and to me, I think that was, that was a really beautiful experience. And again, it goes back to what you were saying, Holly, it's the way giving should be, you know, the credit goes to those doing the work. And, and then we can all share and benefit from it. Because when, when people or when women and girls are safe in the community, you know, we all benefit from that, when, when these programs exist, and they bring the kind of relief that you've made possible, it benefits all of our communities, not just BIPOC communities, but it's for the benefit of all, what's been the most favorite part of the work that you've come to know, through The Share Fund?

Bill 

Wow, that's a hard one. I mean, personally, just the amount of the learning that I've had in in what can be done and what needs to be done out there and how it can be done. In terms of favorite projects, I'm not going to, I can't pick out a single grantee, you guys have just made amazing choices. And oof, I may have to think about this for a minute.

Holly 

I have really appreciated the exposure to more of the state and to different communities, both geographically different communities, and also culturally different communities. It has given me a window into your Yakama Native community into the geography of the Yakima area to Rashad's, sort of south of King County, Thurston County, community, to Mei Tom's Seattle community, and I could name every one of you on the committee and the communities you have sort of exposed us to, and that has been really rewarding to me to sort of expand my knowledge of our state and the people in it, and the group's doing work in it.

Estakio 

And, you know, I also, as a member, appreciate the learning that I get to do, you know, even though I work in philanthropy, you only know what you know, and this has allowed me to really break silos, and to be able to experience you know, not only what is it like to fund in different sectors, but to be able to fund in this way through community members. So I learned about incredible work that I don't think I would have, you know, I would be getting from, you know, just without The Share Fund, so, and it also sharpens, I think one of the benefits is members, I think, well, it sharpens our skill sets, and it helps to really demystify philanthropy, it shouldn't, you know, philanthropy doesn't have to be that hard. You know, we can do it, anybody can do it. It's been done like this before, you know, other traditions have had giving circles. And I've always known that the community, they're the boots on the ground, know where the needs are greater, and how to make the greatest difference with those resources, whatever they may be. And so I think it also harkens back to some of that, those good ways of doing things. And again, it goes back, I keep going back to how good it feels to do this work, feels so good to be a part of The Share Fund, whether it's as a recipient or as an awardee. So I think I talked about it already, too, you know, more of the dollars go directly out to the community, I really think it's grounded on social intelligence and tapping into those networks of each other, the members of The Share Fund, I think that's that part of it, I think, is a little bit of, that's where some of the groundbreaking and innovation can really happen. Because it's, you know, it builds upon that trust and the relationships that we have with the community. And then the, I think, then it builds upon that trust, you know, trust and relationship that we have with you, and that we trust you and you trust us to do this work. And, again, I can't I can't speak, you know, more highly of the way that you two have gone about it. And it really is true. You know, I've gone to award ceremonies when we've presented, you know, checks or just given given them to the community and they always want to give us a plaque or a thank you. And I remember I collected, you know, one and brought it back and like, Oh, hey, Bill, Holly, you know, I was there. I was representing The Share Fund, and I got this, and I was trying to give it to y'all and you're like, well, that's stop. That's yours. That's for you guys. You know, and I really thought that okay, well, he's gonna they're gonna want this right. Like, this is the part that you get. Right. And, and it wasn't. So it goes back to that question again, like, is this real?

Holly 

Yeah, that's what I all I want are the stories. I mean, those are really the thing that sort of for me that it's all about. I am gonna go back to one thing though, which goes way back to the beginning of like, why we're doing this and our decision not to participate in transferring wealth to our next generation to the inequities in wealth that are particularly true as racial wealth inequities. And when we were getting ready to go down this path before The Share Fund even existed, but that was sort of our first realization was we wanted to give away our wealth in our lifetime. We talked to our kids about it, because they're all in their 20s. Our oldest is now 30. And we weren't sure what they were going to think about it. And we sort of told them, where we were heading with it and why. And our oldest was like, and we offered for them to participate with us in it if they wanted to. And our oldest was, yeah, I'm, I'm not surprised. I figured that's what you guys were going to be doing. I didn't think I'd be getting anything and, and our youngest, who at the time was in his early 20s was like, Yeah, cool. And, like, I don't have time in my life for this, you know, he was he was focused on his early 20s. This is not a part of my life thing. And our daughter, and this was very memorable to me, said she was really proud of us. And that also was in terms of the rewards. It's not the rewards about The Share Fund, per se, but it's the reward about doing something that feels right to us in terms of our world and sort of justice in our world. And then she did sort of work with us a little bit on sort of the early days of thinking through The Share Fund. And then realize that with her work and things, she was too busy to really commit much time to it. But that's another sort of aspect, more personal aspect of the reward piece is knowing that they're supportive of this. And, you know, maybe this is something that our society slowly is starting to look at as another thing that needs to happen is really looking at where does wealth live? And how does it perpetuate? And how should it not perpetuate in the same ways.

Estakio 

That's amazing. You guys are really true Mavericks.

Bill 

Before we finish, we had this idea earlier that we should each come up with, with this one sentence, what do we need to do to normalize or talk about more in the sector to advance racial equity and work at the governance level?

Estakio 

I think people need to hear this, I think people need to hear from your perspective and, and to see the difference that it makes. I think people need to know that it's possible. And you know, that is it real, it is real is possible. And The Share Fund has been really great at, you know, producing publications and literature to really document our journey and the things that we've learned along the way. And so I would say read that report. And you know, just again, thank you to Bill and all you guys have really hacked philanthropy in a way that I think leaps us into, like the next generation of giving in a way that you've done it through humility and authenticity. And I just want you to know how much I appreciate you for this incredible opportunity that you've made possible for myself and for the community and for all those that we work with at The Share Fund. So thank you.

Holly 

Great. I guess one thing I would say in terms of normalizing is, I think we need to normalize talking about wealth in our country, and where it lives and how it lives and how it reflects into things like philanthropy and governance, and how wealth and power are intertwined in ways they shouldn't be. Wealth should not, in my view, be the reason for power, which is what The Share Fund has been all about is trying to sort of decouple wealth and power. So I guess that might be what I would say, as a thought of what ought to be normalized. And this goes for governance is that, I think, looking at where the power dynamics lie, and who has the power? And is it the right people for that power at that point in time. And it wasn't for us, we were not the right people to hold the power in our minds for this philanthropy. So that might be what I would say.

Bill 

That's along that's what I was thinking of was power. I don't know if Estakio if your kids are old enough to watch Frozen yet, but, you know, letting go makes you more powerful.

Estakio 

That's a good quote. Yeah, you know, it also it's a reflection of, you know, I just keep thinking of two things. Um, you know, in Switzerland, they're this phrase where they're saying it's better to give with warm hands than with cold hands. And I think, you know, it's also beautiful that you're able to witness you know, the the transformation of the sharing that you've made be possible in our communities in this beautiful state, you know, because you did focus on Washington state. We're very proud, you know, to be Washingtonians is very proud of our communities. And I think what a beautiful thing that you also get to witness it, and then see the work that you've made possible. So, yes, in our communities too, like in the tribal communities, you see it through potlatches. And through, you know, canoe journey celebrations, where you show your wealth by how much of it you give away. And I think this is another testament, you know, to the great transfer of wealth that has happened, you know, both directions here through our our relationship and our friendship, and the work that we get to do so. Again, just thank you.

Holly 

I would turn that right back around and say thank you too your shouldering a lot of the work of it. Although, as you say, it's good work. But we are thrilled to have this chance to talk together but also to sort of share in the work

Bill 

Oh this was great. Thanks Estakio.

Estakio 

Yeah, thank you.

Nancy (Host) 

Thank you Estakio, Bill and Holly for providing insights into a new way of giving and surfacing some really important conversations around power and wealth. You can find more information on this episode, including guest bios, shownotes and additional resources at thegivingpractice.org. And if you have a topic that you think philanthropy should be talking about more, let us know by emailing hello@thegivingpractice.org. This podcast was written and produced by Aya Tsuruta and Emily Daman with audio engineering and editing support by Podfly and graphic design by Asha Hossain. A special thanks to Stephanie Ellis-Smith at Phīla Engaged Giving and our Philanthropy Northwest and Giving Practice teams for their thought partnership. And to the Ford Foundation for making this project possible. I'm Nancy Sanabria, and we'll see you next time.