Tanya Edelin and Dilcia Molina-Sanchez (English)

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

We are a community organization. And yes, we have people in the community who have positions on the board and the four of us who joined the board. Well, we are people who are active right at the base level, there is a primary school teacher, another person that is in a struggle every day against HIV and another person who's working for justice and housing, and I am working on the issue of gender violence.

Nancy (Host)

From The Giving Practice at Philanthropy Northwest this is Can We Talk About...?  a project to normalize the messiness of leading for racial equity in philanthropy and reflect on what it takes to create lasting transformation. In our pilot season, leaders across philanthropy reflect with one another on their experiences working to advance racial equity. at the governance level. We're asking leaders to explore sticky topics, look for learning, practice vulnerability and give themselves and each other permission to speak in first draft and what we ask of you is to do the same. In this episode, we are joined by Tanya Edelin and Dilcia Molina two board members from the if Foundation for Radical Possibility. This episode was recorded using interpreters and is available in English and Spanish. Here are Tanya and Dilcia and our interpreters Kathy Ogle and Elizabeth McMeekin introducing themselves.

Tanya 

Good afternoon. I'm Tanya Edelin. I'm the vice president of finance and administration at Youth Invest Partners, formerly Venture Philanthropy Partners, and I have the pleasure to serve as vice chair and treasurer of the if Foundation for Radical Possibility. I use the she and her pronouns. I live in Washington DC, and I'm the proud mother of two boys who are 27 and 20 I don't feel that old but I am happy to have them in my life and with a loving husband.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Okay, hi, my name is Dilcia Molina-Sanchez, that's my full name in Spanish. I try to use my two last names to honor my mother's side and my father's side and the ancestry of all of my grandparents. I'm a Honduran living here in migration. I came here through a political asylum, I had to leave because of my work in human rights trying to prevent human trafficking and with the LGBTQ community in Honduras. And now I'm a founder and co director of a Latino migrant women's organization called Mother Theodora and I'm also have the pleasure and joy of being part of the board of directors at the if Foundation. I'm in the governance committee. And since 2019, I've been part of the board and I'm very happy to be here. I'm also a mother. I have two sons, 30 and 28 years of age. And I'm an activist, and I'm a human rights worker for the Latina immigrant community. And currently, I'm working, working in a cooperative of women who do cleaning work, and I'm very happy to be here. This is Kathy Ogle. I am Dilcia's voice today, I'm an interpreter. And I've been working as an interpreter in Washington DC with different groups for about 20 years. One of the groups I worked for was a public health clinic where Dilcia was active and was working there for some time. And so that's how I met Dilcia. And when I heard that she was going to be interviewed by the if foundation, I thought great, I want to be part of this. I use she/her pronouns, and I live in the DC area. Thank you.

Elizabeth 

And this is Elizabeth and I am interpreting from English into Spanish for Dilcia. I also live in the DC area. I have three adult children. And it is a great joy to participate in this opportunity with you all.

Nancy (Host)

Tanya and Dilcia share what it feels like to be part of an organization that is radically centering community and racial justice, while offering examples of what it looks like at the board level is bold. It inspires reflection. It's a conversation you won't want to miss.

Tanya 

So Dilcia. I am excited to have this chat with you today. I think we have both been on the if board during a tremendous transformation. And a part of that transformation is inclusive of how we center community in our work, but also how we shift power in your activism, I am just always in awe and excited that we have this opportunity to talk about our work in advancing racial equity in philanthropy. And as you and I are most familiar with is that when we think about our work on if, it's not only external, but it's also internal and how we build our own relationships. We always open with a question or opening ritual. So I thought it would it be fitting that we do the same in this conversation. And the first question that I have for you in terms of the openings, how are you entering the space today?

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Wow, I'm very happy, I'm feeling grateful for this opportunity to share with you. And I'm also grateful that I have two good friends who are making it possible for what what I'm saying today to be heard in the dominant language. And I'm very happy the weather is nice, because it's both sunny and rainy at the same time. And this morning, I was remembering that my grandfather and indigenous Lenca man from Honduras said, When it rains, open up the windows of your house, the ones in front and the ones and back so that the good new things come into your house. So this morning, I ventilated my house. And so I had air come in and air go out, and I'm feeling very happy to be here. I'm happy for these meetings that allow me to connect with myself and with my whole self. So thank you so much for asking. And you? How are you? How are you coming into this space today?

Tanya 

Well I'm going to be honest, I am entering this space with a little bit of excitement. But also with a little bit of anxiety. This is my first podcast. So this will be an interesting conversation. But what I'm happy about is that we this isn't new to us than that these conversations we've had amongst our group in the past. And so that is comforting. As well as it's comforting, being here with you. So love the excitement, but also like, oh my gosh, how do I say, oh, that's what will happen. So I will be pleased. Once it's over. You know, it's one of those things where you never like the way you say. We'll have some fun with it.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Yeah, me too. This is new for me, too. I talk a lot. I'm from the oral tradition. And even if I don't speak the dominant language, I think I do still speak a lot. So thanks once again to the interpreters. Because in, in addition to my English not being great, my Spanish isn't great, either. I like to invent words. And so it can be hard to understand. But I'm so happy to share with you and with and to talk about if and this marvelous experience that we've had. And you've been a reference point for me, in this organization in this journey. So thank you, thank you for the introduction. And for the welcome, and I'd like to talk with you. And as I was saying, You're a reference point for me, you're the first person that I talked to on the board, when I was on the first community board meeting and I said, what is this like, what it's like to be part of a board. I don't really understand how this works. And you were saying maybe I could you could say a little bit about how you came to the foundation? And what are some of the first memories that you have of getting involved in work. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your experience. Thank you.

Tanya 

Absolutely, Dilcia I'm it's I'm glad that you mention that because I think it's something that I've even glossed over is when we when if first sort of started its journey of community transformation and that community transformation really focused on how do we bring individuals who have those lived experiences for which we are addressing and serving onto the board. I think the foundation learning days were our opportunity to really bring in those representatives in and help them help the community understand how foundation and philanthropy work. But also it was a recruitment opportunity for us and I remember sitting next to you and you turn to me at the end of the meeting and said, you know, this sounds great but is this is this real? I remember that. And I said to you at the time, if I'm probably not in the exact words, I said, I have been in this field for some time. And one thing that I do know that is real is this organization's intentions, and that what they say is what they do and what how we, and what we believe. And that I encouraged you to learn more, and to really think hard about the opportunity that we were setting forth in that room. And I will say, for me, it was an honor and a pleasure to be in this space. And I say that because my traditional background has not been in philanthropy, my traditional background is finance and operations, and particularly in a healthcare setting. And so when I was introduced to the work of philanthropy, it was due it was through a health, a health equity lens, and then becoming a part of if, formerly Consumer Health Foundation at the time, when we first met, it was a breath of fresh air to be affiliated with an organization that sort of call, you know, race and racism out. And it wasn't something that everyone was doing, everyone kind of danced around it, they talked about it in theory, but there was true not, there was truly no action. And I thought that if was different. And at the time, I was like what a badass organization who wouldn't want to be a part of an organization that is really being transformational, in shifting power, in putting community at the center of all that it does. And I think when I think about my own background, and my own values, one of the things that I think I share with you Dilcia as well as others is that you are a servant, for those that you feel are marginalized, are not receiving they're just do. And for me, I think my approach to life has always been how do I show up with love and care? And treat folks like my family? And I've always felt that if personified that and I'm just happy to be a part of an organization, such as if.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Yeah, I remember that one of the first questions I asked was this, am I in the right place? I had heard about philanthropy, but not much. When I migrated, the first work that I got involved in was community work. And I thought, no, I'm not really interested in philanthropy. We're talking about, you know, bourgeois charity, when we talk about philanthropy, and I didn't really realize that there was a possibility to have a progressive intentional philanthropy that might be interested in dismantling capitalist systems. So I am grateful to you for being a channel for me to be able to arrive at this organization.

Tanya 

Absolutely. I think when if we think about sort of the things that have stood out in the evolution of if that really started with those foundation days, I think when we really put the theory into action, I want us to take a step back and talk a little bit about, you know, what effort it took us to get to that point, Dilcia and I know, you've heard us talk about it before in terms of how it operates, and how we believe that we are an organization that punches above our weight. We never let the heart stuff that we encounter and grapple with. And we feel that we always come out to the right on the right side of those challenges and issues. And it really started before the foundation day. It started with us making a conscious effort to say that we want philanthropy to be different. And as you said, you thought philanthropy was bourgeois and is this the place? You know, where you know, these things can really be we can make true transformation and from if's perspective, it started with taking perpetuity off the table, I'm a finance person and in philanthropy, you know, the goal for foundations is to stay around forever, right? And forever can be at the detriment of you being able to do what's right, for the community just serving. And so for if to make that change, in the beginning, it was mind blowing to me. And then to talk about how do we begin to shift power in how we, in our grantmaking and doing participatory grantmaking was another, you know, change in our evolution. And then when we brought you and others onto the board, and then there were positions of leadership that you held that that's another part of the transformation that we've engaged them. And so, for me, those things led up to where we are today. And there's just so much more that we can do. And I'm excited about all of the ideas that you bring to the table. And I just wonder what are the things that sort of stand out to you in that evolutionary phase of where we are today, and where we where we see our future?

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Well, I think I got involved at a time that was very strategic for the organization. And I'm grateful to the universe for this. And it was precisely when this whole movement began to really focus on the community. And for me, it was an opportunity. If that shift hadn't happened, I probably wouldn't have gotten involved in the foundation, because in the first place, there's this enormous limitation of language. And since you were proposing to center in the community, we knew that there were a lot of challenges. And one of those challenges is that the more marginalized communities and immigrant communities don't speak the dominant language. And so knowing that, if was going to open up this radical possibility of ivesting and language access and create spaces for linguistic justice, language justice, this was great. I said, God, this is where I need to be. This is the organization. And I told some of my radical feminist friends, I'm going to tell you where I am, it's called the Consumer Health Foundation, which is what it was called at the time. And I said, this is where I'm going to be organizing, it's wonderful. They're involved in a whole struggle against racism, and they're super open to other communities, like our immigrant communities. And I can also speak in my language, which is one of the more important things for me. And so to feel that my voice is being listened to is something that's very important. And that's been part of the transformation when I came here, and that's what I felt. And I also felt like it operated really democratically. That there was a community way of accessing the funds and distributing the funds. And so I said, okay, this is ideal place, but I thought, something's missing here. And I thought, okay, the gender perspective that women and all of the struggles were always behind the scenes. And so all of that started to be emphasized in the organization just when I came in. And it was something I talked with Yanique about, I come from the radical feminist organizations, and I was saying, this foundation is perfect, we just need to have the gender aspect included, since we have come from a pro immigrant struggle here in the United States. But there's a huge lack of the perspective of women and even in the pro Immigrant movement, were the last people to speak. And the power relationships continued to be very patriarchal. And so to come here and find that opening was wonderful when I came in, and people said, let's talk about that. That was great. And so I feel like we're working on that part that was missing before. And I think we're on a great path. And so that makes me very happy. And of course, it's a challenge to incorporate and articulate a gender perspective with this kind of radicalility is not an easy task. But that's what we're about we're a radical foundation and foundation of radical possibilities. So I think, now we're really on a great path. And we want to continue on that and I think we'll be discovering with the communities themselves, what are some of the things that might still be missing?

Tanya 

Dilcia, I am so happy that you talk about sort of the radical possibilities, because I believe that that is the spirit in which you come into the work and in all of our meetings. I don't know if you recall that. Even when we created this new strategic vision, and it was presented, you went, in some ways like that I don't believe that's bold enough, could we get bolder? So, for me, I was sitting there thinking, wow, okay. Because I come from finance, I come from where that patriarchy starts, right where the money or the money is held and sometimes hoarded. And so for us to really take a step back and say, why can't we be bolder, and I think that you helped us get there. But the other thing I want to make sure that we don't miss, because you mentioned her name, that is Yanique Dr. Yanique Redwood. And I don't believe that we would be in this position without her leadership. And so for the listeners, Yanique was our former president and CEO of Consumer Foundation, and eventually, if Foundation for Radical Possibility. And she took the foundation on this journey of transformation that allowed us to get to where we are today. And now although she is no longer with the organization, and we have a great leadership and in  our Co CEOs of Temi Bennett and Hanh Le, it is really the where we are in terms of moving from a health equity foundation to a racial justice foundation, really was the brainchild of Dr. Yanique. Right, let's I want to give her some kudos in this conversation.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Yes, that's very important. Yanique's leadership has really been left here as her legacy. And that's an important and we as a foundation are following the lines that were traced back then, during that trends formation. And I think that has been quite beautiful. And two beautiful leaders that we have now in the executive director positions has been important. That was a great step. And I think we made that transition well. And going back to something that you mentioned in terms of the finances, I'm so happy that you are there particular because you're a woman. And because the tradition is that women's relationship with money and with capital is so different now. And I myself have said, Oh no, I'm really bad. I'm bad with money. But that's not true. Because I had to learn in my participation with if that that wasn't true at all. We had a great workshop on our relationship with money and with abundance. And I said, wow, I'm I've been single mother and I've administered my home for more than what 30 years. And it's worked, right. So I've been a woman in the working class. But I've I have been a good administrator. And I've had to deal with this whole capitalist system and the costs and different types of bankruptcy. And but I think this is something that's really important to connect women with the ability and the capacity and the wisdom that we have to handle finances, both from the finances in our home, as well as the finances in a foundation. We're trying to give out money equitably to make different community struggles possible. And one thing I'd like to hear from you is, what does it mean for you to be involved in racial equity when we're talking about fiduciary responsibilities? What is it been like for you to be the president of the finance committee? And what have you rediscovered in your role?

Tanya 

I'm gonna say that's a hard question to respond to, Dilcia and the reason why I say that is because I am still looking for the transformation in that fiduciary, you know, duty. I think how we manage our financial portfolio to date, I do believe is on sort of the cutting edge, we're looking at sort of the ESG approach, where it's environmental, social and government in terms of and we avoid all of those you know other organizations. And we've seen great returns in the past. But if we are to really live out our values in our finances, I do think we need to move further along the social side of our investments. And how do we do that in a way that honors the organization. And it's in its vision. And as you know, that, when we took perpetuity off the table, we said that we were making investments within our communities that may not have yield a positive return at the end of the year, because we believe in it. But also, we know that having this progressive agenda, and bringing partners in can help us build up our financial conference, so that we can deliver as well. And so to answer your question, I think it is taking a step back, and thinking about our portfolio differently, but doing it in a way that is balanced, that we are not doing something that will not allow us to continue the good work, but also in a way that yields sort of the right partnerships with organizations that are aligned with our values, but also looking to think about sort of those non capitalistic kind of V's of money. And I think we've had those conversations before in terms of what are other ways to raise funds to support our work that are not in the traditional fundraising ways? How do we do that differently? And there are ways to explore it. We also talked about similar to our foundation days, how do we look to our community partners, and help them to build endowments and be able to share in ways to allow them to be able to continuously deliver on their missions? So I know, I probably didn't answer the question succinctly, because I think we're still trying to figure it out. And that is a part of the work that we have ahead of us. One thing that you know, you find a lot in organizations is that you know, your budgets and your dollars, and how you use those dollars really is an indication of what you value what you honor. And I'm not saying that that's that our current finances don't do that. But we feel like we can do more in that. That is, you know, my expectation of that says of foundation, as well as I think it's how we are looking at how we move forward in managing our portfolio and how we share as well. Did I answer your question okay.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Yes, no, that was great. These conversations generate this right, more than responding to specific questions. It's like generating conversation with new questions that come up and little questions about what we're doing. And what it means that we're trying to stay on the right path. And we're, we dream about the utopias that we're trying to reach. And that's what if it's about really betting on a better future and a transformation of society. And that's how we get to justice and equity for everyone. That's part of what we're trying to do on a daily basis and finances, you know, it can be very cumbersome no matter where you are. But I think this other look at it, and what you're doing, and what you're coordinating on the committee is a huge help to the institution, and it helps communities.

Tanya 

Totally agree. But let me ask the different question of you, Dilcia, because I want to kind of reflect back on, what you mentioned, is that we did have a retreat that really helped us as board members understand what were our connections with money and sort of moving out of this scarcity mode and looking at abundance, right? And if we are able to operate in abundance, could that mindset sort of shift? And I think the other part of that conversation later in that retreat is where we talked about, do we need to dismantle capitalism right and look at different ways in which we can be in solidarity with our communities from a financial standpoint. And I know I struggle in that conversation where I was looking, not necessarily dismantling capitalism. And maybe that's because it's the rules of the finance that I come from, and was looking at well do we have to dismantle? Can we just exploit was sort of how I was thinking about it. But I also liked that when you brought in a very different viewpoint of how philanthropy and dollars can be more cooperative, within a community, and how it can be shared, I think those are sort of those radical possibilities that we as if want to explore, then I think, for your traditional finance professionals, executives, it could be heresy, right. But I believe if there's an organization that can think differently, and not just say that this is a direction that we can do, without due diligence, and strategy, and in, you know, having some really thought provoking conversations, I do believe it's something that we can really find an answer to, in the future. And so I just wanted to kind of provide that additional context, from my own personal standpoint, as it relates to sort of just the beauty of this organization, the beauty of this conversation, as we've kind of talked a little bit more about it. So I've talked a lot about finance. I know, you lead our governance and nominations committee, and that, that has been definitely the sort of were the power of the connections that we make with each other, but also, with our community partners. So let me share with what do you think is, you know, how that's been working for you and your perspective on chairing our nominations and governance committee? And, and how, you know, being able to make up the board and that recruitment and all that great stuff. Cuz really, is what drives us as an organization. So how has that been working for you? Or what are the things that you are thinking about as it relates to our governance work?

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Yes, that's one of the things that really made me fall in love with if. And with that transformation, there were four of us from the communities, me and three other friends who were part of became part of the board of directors. And I ended up being the chair of the governance committee. I think one of the most important things in that role for me, and is something that inspires me, in terms of what if has stated that is coherent with my way of thinking and feeling and my sense and my guts about what is right, is that the organization does what it says it will. That's a wonderful practice. We are a community organization. And yes, we have people in the community who have positions on the board, and the four of us who joined the board. Well, we are people who are active right at the base level, there is a primary school teacher, another person that is in a struggle every day against HIV, and another person who's working for justice and housing, and I whom working on the issue of gender violence. I think on this response to what we say and what we believe the values of if. And so I just want to continue in my role with these values. And for me, it's important that we have really key people on our board, we have a super diverse board. And I love that every day all of the meetings that we have we learned something precisely because of this because we're such a diverse community, black communities, immigrant communities, LGBT communities, homeless people. And I think the challenge that we have now is that how do we attract people from functional diversities? We're interested in bringing in people from other spaces, people who are looking at life and other ways who learn in different ways that having to do with their functional capacity, for example, hearing impaired persons we're working to make sure that they can be part of our board. And for me, it's really important that we have Native American people from this part of North America participate with us. And so we're looking at that. And also people who are much younger than we are, people who have less youth accumulated, let's say, this is something that is the hard work that we're involved in. And I think it's very important, how to attract different communities in an equitable power relationship. And it's not easy to begin with to, it's hard to get people from the communities to participate at all, people who are working to survive. And this is their, you know, quote, unquote, extra time to be involved in community work. So it's a lot to ask. But I think we have been able to express a lot of solidarity in this sense. And we have opened up our minds and our hearts more to make that possible. Because we know that if we're going to have people directly from the communities, it's going to be hard, because they are just barely getting by on a daily basis. And for them to come and make decisions with us and to participate with us. That's a huge challenge. But it's been something that's very coherent, right? That we're going to remunerated people from the community so that they can be part of our board. And they're coming and giving their time and they're, you know, surviving, we need to help them to do that. So that's been very important. And that's been very congruent with what we say we that we practice what we preach. And so we're continuing along those lines, to have a very, very diverse board of directors. And I think we are achieving that. And not just to represent and to have some sort of tokenism. That's not what we're looking for, we're really looking for an equitable distribution of power. And that is a beautiful thing. I think my job is to keep doing that. And I'm very happy that we're in that process. Right now, we're looking for three people to be on the board. And it's a struggle, but we're really trying to make this board the most diverse, possible people who have had power taken away from them, and so that they can talk about what they're living on a daily basis and bring that to our discussions. And I think that gives more legitimacy to what the foundation does. So we're on it.

Tanya 

I'm so happy you raised that. Because as you know, unfortunately, I was unable to make our last retreat, and intersectionality was one of those key areas in which we talked about is sort of where does diversity not only lie within you know racial diversity, but also I'm glad he talked about ableism. And he talked about, you know, what does it mean, from a gender standpoint, and so those things matter, as well as, like you said, is that if we want to bring others on to other representation, on to our board, that we have to be mindful of the potential hardship of that, and one of the commitments that we've made as a board is to provide stipends to those that may have that and be able to ensure that they can participate fully. And when we say participate fully, that means that they're able to bring their whole self into the process of the work that we are doing. And so that is awesome reminder of that value of what it means from your role and governance. And I just wonder, if you were to sort of think about on the horizon of what the makeup of our board would look like, what is your vision, when what does that look like? Dilcia in terms of, you know, if we, if you had your, your wish is that for us to make sure that we are representing all of those potential isms that are out here in society, and building you know, as close as of utopia that we can get to and I want the listeners to not think that we're like collian, I hear that we understand sort of the that all of this isn't easy work to do and it's hard work. But I think for us, at if we want to dream of what, what it can be, and make that sort of the work for us to work towards that and not shy away from it. I just I just wonder what are your thoughts? If people like to say to you, well, that's a great goal, Dilcia, but is that is that reality? What would you say to those folks?

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Well, I think at if we are always conspiring, right, we're always co conspiring. And it's like you say, you know, we talk about something, that's utopic. But as much as we can, we are trying to bring in all of the various communities possible to be represented, represented on our board of directors. Sometimes we know that there's a lot of community leaders from different organizations, and the leadership has its own tasks to do. So if we can bring on five different diverse communities in our board of directors, I think we will have done what we want. And I think, right now, we already have quite a bit of diversity at if that's very important, we're listening to very diverse voices or incorporating things into our values and our daily practice. We're learning about needs and concerns and struggles of different communities. And so that's what's happened with if we talk about racism, from the perspective of the black communities, but also from the brown communities, the Latino communities, the Native American communities, Muslim communities, from Asian communities. And so that's a lot. So I think it's their great achievements already. And if we're able to broaden that, that would be icing on the cake. And we're walking towards that, too, include, people who are differently abled, and that will help us to understand what's happening with them. And I think that part is still important for us to achieve on our board. And I think that's going to be a goal, as we say, like a goal in the soccer game, as we say, in Spanish, because we have so many colleagues and friends who represent different communities. Also, to bring on communities that are younger than we are, I think is important that will help us a lot. They will help us to guide our work with different perspectives. But I think it's possible, in fact, we're already doing it. And if we are not able to get everyone on the board, or as advisors, or as we at least have strategic allies, right, we have communities that we can contact and even if they're not on the board itself, or if they're not working directly with us, they're still strategic allies, that in our work for racial justice, and gender equity and economic justice, we will be able to count on them as our allies. And so that's the way of working and incorporating different communities, the LGBTQ community, for example, we are also trying to find someone from that community that can be on the board, but we've already made strategic alliances with them. So they're already part of the work that we do in creating our YouTube videos with our values and our mission.

Tanya 

I'm glad you raised that. And that's something that I've been thinking about, especially as I look at our region in the DMV, I believe that we as an organization has sort of blazed this pathway within the region, to really think about how philanthropy can be different. And I do believe that we've created these multiple allies along the way in the space and in the field. But I also find that not every organization can show up like we do. And I believe and this is where my my financial hit comes into play is that we have been strategic in our ability to bring on leaders on a board that have a progressive agenda or progressive perspective, that is willing to be radical. And not every organization has that luxury, right? Because a lot of organizations, they get to the board and the board is like, absolutely not. But we have been strategic in that place of individuals. I think secondarily, we are a foundation that has an endowment, right. And not all nonprofits have an endowment that allows them to really be able to take care of, you know, the day to day operation is and so a lot of times is in the nonprofit space, unfortunately, and not necessarily foundation's, they're having to pivot in order to be able to access those funds. And I think that is, that is also a differing point for us. But I think the now my operational head comes on is that in showing up so radically, that also has its risks of people who may not care for the progressive agenda that we're putting on the table. And I think, for us as an organization, in the leadership that we've amassed over the years, that is a compliment to community representation as well. And I'm gonna say true community representation. And not, you know, as you said, not a token, but really community representation that has a level of power on the board, is the differentiator, right? And so, I think, where we look at our role moving forward as a foundation, and how do we kind of turn this philanthropy on its head, is that if you are truly looking to not continue to amass your riches or maintain your own operations, and really shift power, I think we have sort of a blueprint in which folks can follow. Now, every community is different. And we're in the DMV, and that may be different, a different sort of regional perspective as well, where it's, you know, a little bit more, the ground is a little bit softer, towards our thinking, but I think we've we've created something that can be long lasting. And I think it's long lasting, because of what you just mentioned, from a governance standpoint, we're bringing in the right leadership and the right voices into the space, and not being scared of the hard thing, so the hard questions. And in that is what I love about being on this board and what I love about just the possibility of what we can do in the future.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Yes, and it is beautiful, how this coherence allows different members of the board to be more patient to be more committed with what we're doing. In my case, for example, I'm always grateful for the sessions of the junta and any other space where there is linguistic access, that is not easy to have linguistic justice is not easy. And it's not only cost money, but you have to have the right equipment, who's going to be using the receiver, it's uncomfortable, it's not easy always to be wearing these receivers, who's going to speak loudly, who's going to speak softly. I've always been a, you know, struggling tooth and nail for justice. And so I start speaking very fast, and the poor interpreters who are also our allies, and also in our struggle, they you know, are having all kinds of trouble trying to follow us. So it is not easy to build linguistic justice. But that talks about the coherence that we're trying to create here in if since 2019, when I came into if we've had not had a single meeting where we haven't had language justice space, I feel honored. I feel like a human being when I'm there and I can be there as myself. And not somebody that no one can talk with because they don't  that I don't speak the dominant language. And so I think, you know, we can pat ourselves on the back for that, you know, we should give ourselves an award really because we have been capable of having how many meetings now? Maybe 50 or 60. Where we have established language justice, we have created this lovingly and coherently and with political and ideological commitment that we do want language justice spaces, not just for those of us on the board, but also in the community, because there are community leaders that speak different languages. And this is very important. And we should make this visible in terms of what if does, it's not an easy thing. And we can imagine, now, when we have even more diversity, and perhaps functional diversity on the board, how are we going to make that happen? Because it's the noise we make that connects us with each other. But if we bring on people who don't hear, that's going to help us to heal that other part of ourselves that we don't have to shout, we can create spaces that don't involve sound that is creative and fluid. And to have a someone like that on the board is going to be marvelous, I'm really trying to work for that.

Tanya 

Oh, my gosh, I'm getting excited about it right now. I truly am. It's just so reminds me of our approach is never satisfied with what we've accomplished it's always how we can do more and do better in all in service to our community. So that's, that's really a finer point that I think needs to be made. And I think this conversation for us, is really around our journey and experience in the work with if. And I don't know if anyone else feels that, you know, for me, and I think I'll, I will speak for you, too, Dilcia maybe Dilcia if you allow me to is that it has been an honor and a privilege to be affiliated with this organization with if, in that the many meetings that you mentioned that we always bring language justice into the space. Some people would view as a complication or additional cost. But this is a cost of us delivering on our promise to to our communities, then I think in a reframing of that it's important for folks to understand and understand that, that we are speaking as board members, which typically have a level of power and how we are demonstrating how that power is shared amongst those of us who bring different expertise to the table, and how that expertise needs to be valued at wherever your background that you come from. So So what I'd like to do is maybe kind of close out our conversation a bit with maybe just one sentence Dilcia then I'll follow up with maybe build on what you're thinking, because I'm gonna say, I have no issue with following, because I just think that you have wonderful ideas, and I'm a finance person with just numbers most of the time. But if we talked I think and I think we alluded to this throughout our conversation a bit in the latter part is, we talked about this is sort of utopia that we are kind of working towards. And what I want to make sure of in terms of leaving the listeners with something is that we don't want to make it to utopic so folks don't think that it's achievable right now. And so if you had to think about sort of what were the what is the first step or the first action of a first practice, that folks that are in our positions may need to do to just kind of normalize how to talk about advancing sort of radical possibility in this sector, and particularly at our level in the board. What do you think that would be?

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Well, one of the things that I have practiced, but strengthened it when I joined if it was this idea of relating to different ways of seeing life and different ways of seeing the world. And I think when we have a Native American person on our board, for example, they're going to come with a totally different non western cosmo vision, and that will strengthen us as well. So I think It's always important to pause the best way movements like ours who have these struggles and dissident sees and ideas of utopia's and conspiring for racial justice and gender justice and economic justice. I think it's really important just to pause sometimes. And there's a lot of questions like, Oh, what do we need to move forward? Well, what we need to do to move forward is to stop, to pause and to take care of ourselves. That's part of the healing justice as well and restorative justice. And it sounds like a contradictory thing. It can't it's contradictory to Western thinking, you know, you have to get there on time. And what about relationship with money and everything that has to be fast and efficient. And these concepts are so different from one community to another. And if we started to talk about that, because the rhythm that you have on a board of directors, when you have just professionals involved, it's different than when you have a board of directors with community members suddenly involved. So I think pausing is important, and it's not just stopping, it's starting a different rhythm. Who is it to say that faster is better, only patriarchal, hierarchical male, white values, think that efficiency is always best, sometimes we just have to give ourselves time, give ourselves the right to rest, give ourselves the right to pause. I think all of that is important so that we can strengthen our own practices of healing. We started today with a ritual that helped us to connect with each other humanly. And we want to do that with everyone who participates with if so that everyone can be here with their full person with their body with their ideas and our spirituality. And we're not talking about religiosity, although for some people, that's important. And let's include that as well. We want to learn from historic progressive struggles, I can talk from my experience in Latin America, all of the struggles for social justice have been so delinked from the need to do personal healing work in each one of us. And I imagine that almost very similar things have happened and experience in this country that says, sometimes I think we just need to pause, we need to disconnect to the cell phone, just like the laptop needs to be recharged, we need to be recharged. And so to continue with our inspirations and with our passions for life and justice, we need to recharge ourselves, I think that is fundamental.

Tanya 

Amen to that. To build on that I like what you're saying in terms of to pause. I know in my own personal journey of sort of the reason why I came to this work, and then on my own equity journey, in some ways, is because I didn't have an opportunity to pause and just stop. And I truly believe not only is it and I tried to come up with the saying that it is not coming to mind right now that talks about the sort of the speed in which you're doing things is that sometimes that just to get there faster does it mean that you honored people along the way, and that is something that I think we have done as an organization. But I want to put a finer point on the learning. Because what I have received, and what I think us as a board has received is a tremendous learning of not only one another, but what it means to do this work in some level of solidarity. And that has taken time. And it is not something that you know, we came together in one meeting and developed in one meaning it's something that we're continuously cultivating. And it's one of the reasons why we do these opening and closing rituals is that the work that we do is relational and in order to honor those folks that we are sorry that we have to be in relationship with them. And that means that we need to be in relationship with one another. Oh, what was the book that you just showed?

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

This was a gift but The Rest is Resistance is the title, and as a gift that if gave us. And I'm reading it little by little in English. And it's been so marvelous to find in writing these practices that we have implemented in if so that's part of it, as well. But ethic of care is like a little stream of water that needs to exist in all of the work that we do, and the board of directors, with a staff, with the organization's like a little stream. And we hope that we can develop this ethic of care, self care, care for communities, care for our staff, to be attentive to what's happening in our communities. And that's something that is rather novel for me. Because often in all these struggles, we just get so involved that we forget about ourselves, and we forget to pause and to rest and to take time for ourselves, which is also part of abundance right? Yeah. So I'm very, very happy that we can include that. And I think we can continue along those lines.

Tanya 

Alright so, I think that we're sort of at the end of our conversation and so I wonder if I'll pass it to you to do our closing ritual.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Alright, we have beautiful phrases that we use to close our activities with and today is a good day to close by saying these words to you and to all of the people who are here, together, what freeze and heals you also freeze and heals me, may the best in me connect with the best in each one of you. That's what I can say to close, thank you very much.

Tanya 

Already, I'm gonna admit I'm not as eloquent as you. So I'm gonna leave with these words is that the work that we do must first start from the heart, in which the heart then informs the head. And if your heart is leading first, in as Dilcia, you said earlier, you have that care for one another, that the head will make the right decisions for how you move forward and how you operate. And so, from that perspective, I just says lead with with heart.

Dilcia (Voice by Kathy) 

Thank you. That was beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you to the interpreters. Elizabeth and Kathy, thank you.

Nancy (Host)

What a beautiful example of how we can work toward building inclusive spaces rooted in justice. Thank you to Tanya Dilcia, and our incredible interpreters, Kathy and Elizabeth, who helped make this conversation possible. You can find more information on this episode, including guest bios, show notes and additional resources at thegivingpractice.org And if you have a topic that you think philanthropy should be talking about more, let us know by emailing hello@thegivingpractice.org. This podcast was written and produced by Aya Tsuruta and Emily Daman with audio engineering and editing support by Podfly and graphic design by Asha Hossain. A special thanks to our Philanthropy Northwest and Giving Practice teams for their thought partnership and the Ford Foundation for making this project possible. I'm Nancy Sanabria, and we'll see you next time.